Did Moses Exist ? a discussion

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A Discussion about if the Biblical Character known as Moses did or did not exist

November 13,2008

Peace Kalipha:
                       Wikipedia is only offering reference materials towards those who beside myself make the claim that MOSES never existed,perhaps a person like a MOSES that was real that this fictional MOSES was based on,again you only offer volumes of sciencing,you make mention of some book of many pages that support that MOSES did exist but you do name it,MOSES like GOD do not & never exist,I could be in error just tell me what to read,point me in the correct direction & I've no problem with saying,HEY! brother you were right. Logic tells me if the messenger taught that the BIBLE is in historical error then how can the QURAN be any better when it contains the same stories & characters? In fact they really are one & the same,both made up by the enemies of dark people based on ancient egyptian or older religions,I am open so guide me,tell me these books you've been reading,I really doubt anybody is betting their life that these fictional characters were any way real,on the DISCOVERY/HISTORY CHANNELS during Xmas time ,they come close but it is all opinion & belief as well as theory as no valid & actual evidence have been found in support,SHOW ME THE MONEY!
Always your brother,

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 6:24 AM, The Kaliphat <kaliphatmusic@gmail.com> wrote:
This was good. I agree that the israelites were never in Egypt. I have discovered that a few years ago in my study. I never argued that point. I have said in my messages that Moses was an Egyptian, not Hebrew or an Israelite. I also never claimed that the Bible was 100% truth. The bible is a very questionable book. In fact I know that nowhere in the first five books of the bible does it state that these are books as revealed to Moses. Moses's name is not even mentioned in Genesis, yet he is credited with writing it by so-called jewish scholars. Message to the Blackman covers that point and the Bible was torn to shreds with inaccuracies in that book alone. So please if you are knowledgeable about what the NOI teaches, then there is no need for you to throw the Bible in my face and tell me the lies it tells and how it is not historically accurate. Part of the NOI's teaching is teaching how false the Bible is, so nice try. The Messenger even said that the scholars would agree with him. You have found just that. The scholars agree with the messenger in that Exodus and every other book in the bible is questionable and not literal historical depictions. I already knew that Exodus wasn't historical. Save that for the Christians and the lost found 85%. We don't disagree on that point (Bible related material) like I have said time and again, so lets move on.  The Bible was never considered a historical book. In it however are signs for us. Even with its falsehoods, there is truth in all things if we examine them closely. Think over that! Dr. Khalid Muhammad (RIP) taught on this subject when he was a member of the NOI (not after he decided to leave, I have the DVD of a lecture of his dated to 1979 that talked about this very subject matter. He was very much a member in '79).  He been to Egypt on several occassions and was a college professor at some University in California in that field. I don't know if you know this, but as a College Professor you are required to conduct studies, publish articles, go on trips and to do conferences and seminars. Each University has there own criteria as to how many they must do a year. It can be anywhere from publishing 2-4 articles a year based on the research that they have found. Anyway, Dr. Khalid found in his study that there was no evidence of the Israelites being there. So I already know this.  I did not ask you to prove to me whether or not the Israelites were in Egypt. I asked you to prove to me that Moses did not exist. Let me tell you that you will not be able to prove that he did not exist, because I already been down that road and I know where it will take you. I do encourage that you look further, but I guess I ruined it for you in telling you how this movie ends (grins). I'm sorry but this movie ends with you not being able to prove he did not exist. No matter how much evidence you find that proves he existed you are still not going to accept it, because you want so badly to be right. What you have found has only proven that the history of Moses as we were once taught was inaccurate and this was done to suit the so called Jews of today and to hide the true history. This however does not mean that Moses did not exist all together. No Egyptian scholar will tell you that he did not exist. They will only point out that his history and depictions by the Jews of today are inaccurate and they have the information that is very near to accuracy. Moses was an Egyptian, not a Hebrew. Even the book of Exodus, as much as you can say how questionable it is, it admits that he was an Egyptians. When the jewish scholars will swear up and down he was Hebrew, but their own book says he was an Egyptian. Read Exodus again and you will find it in plain language to the point where you are going to be like "How did I miss that?".  So that is a way you can use the enemy's book against him.  Even your own findings do not say out right that he did not exist. He did in fact exist just like King Ramses II existed, the problem is the historical accuracy of the information...So..um... yea.... Keep lookin because you will have to do much better than that. I've read entire 300-500 page books on this by white scholars. Its best to use them sometimes because then no one can say the information I'm using is bias to the NOI's way of teaching.  I'm using their scholars for reference so they cannot argue with me and say I'm lying and making things up. They will have to look at their own kind and call their hardvard and northwestern professors liars.  Wikepedia is childsplay, we are much more advanced than that. Good effort though! Peace.

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 4:58 AM, Taalik Ibn'rad <angelsnupnup7@gmail.com> wrote:
Challenges to his historicity
  • There is also the suggestion that Moses was not a real historical figure and that the Exodus did not occur at all. Some archaeologists have claimed that surveys of ancient settlements in Sinai do not appear to show a great influx of people around the time of the Exodus (given variously as between 15001200 BCE), as would be expected from the arrival of Joshua and the Israelites in Canaan. This suggests that the biblical Exodus may not be a literal depiction;[111]. Archaeologists such as Israel Finkelstein, Ze'ev Herzog and William G. Dever, regard the Exodus as non-historical, at best containing a small germ of truth. According to Prof. Ze'ev Herzog, Director of the Institute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University "This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel.... The many Egyptian documents that we have make no mention of the Israelites' presence in Egypt and are also silent about the events of the exodus. [112]
  • In his book, The Bible Unearthed, Finkelstein points to the appearance of settlements in the central hill country around 1200, recognized by most archaeologists as the earliest settlements of the Israelites.[113] Using evidence from earlier periods, he shows a cyclical pattern to these highland settlements, corresponding to the state of the surrounding cultures. Finkelstein suggests that the local Canaanites would adapt their way of living from an agricultural lifestyle to a nomadic one and vice versa. When Egyptian rule collapsed after the invasion of the Sea Peoples, the central hill country could no longer sustain a large nomadic population, so they went from nomadism to sedentism.[114] Dever agrees with the Canaanite origin of the Israelites but allows for the possibility of a Semitic tribe coming from Egyptian servitude among the early hilltop settlers and that Moses or a Moses-like figure may have existed in Transjordan ca 1250-1200.[115]
  • Biblical minimalists, such as Philip Davies, Niels Peter Lemche and Thomas L. Thompson, regard the Exodus as ahistorical. Hector Avalos, in "The End of Biblical Studies," states that the Exodus, as depicted in the Bible, is an idea that most biblical historians no longer support.[116]







November 19,2008





Letter to a Misguided Young Black Muslim,Part # 2








The Kaliphat to me
show details 12:47 PM (4 hours ago) Reply


Music is my job that pays my bills. Everyone has or needs a job. Lil mama is one of the many artist that I have worked with. This does not mean I put it before Allah. In fact, I believe that Allah has blessed me with the talent to be a music producer and to make money at doing it. Me being a music producer and having that as my occupation is no different then having any other job description. We gotta make money and eat somehow. You are showing that you just don't get it and you are not going to get it. You have a false sense of what it is to work in the music business. Its no different then operating in any other business. It does require that you travel a lot, much like many other jobs that exists. Music business is not the only occupation that requires you to travel and be away from home. So you just need to leave that alone and keep it out of your argument. This is for your own good, because you only look foolish in doing so. Stop talking about things you have no knowledge about. You have no knowledge of me and who I am as a person, nor do you have knowledge of what it is that I do on a day to day basis to make assumptions. This is why I suggest that we leave those matters out of it. If you are a man of intelligence you would adhere to what I am saying. If not, this is why I would mark you as spam. Because is no longer about the truth of the matter, its starts to become a conversation about you and me and I do not want to go there. I only want to discuss the truth and I also do not want to go in circles on the same issue. Lets move on, if not do not respond to me. Once again I am not upset, I was only direct when I made my points. I was telling you that you are being combative and you are. I was a follower in NY Mosque No. 7 under Benjiman Chavis Muhammad when he was there until he was relieved and Minister Kevin Muhammad was put in his place. I am now currently in Atlanta, in which I was just at the Mosque this past Sunday. Minister Abdul Sharieff is the minister of Muhammad Mosque No. 15. You have not brought any real truth brother. Once again you are talking about me. Your facts are unbelievably wrong and I cannot say that enough. Just admit that you are wrong about me and apologize. That would be the smart thing to do on your part. I have not made any assumptions about you and your history. I only point out what you have presented to me. I only talk about the things you say and what you claim to be truth. There is a gap in your knowledge on the messengers teaching because you lack the understanding of it based on the things you say. This is not an attack on your character as a person. I just said that you need to study more. I did not say anything to you that would reflect character. I can talk to you about the things I have done to help the nation and go over my participation. What will that matter? You will still find a way to discredit that because you are not interested in the truth. You are only interested in being "right" or appearing to be "right." This is not about you and me and you continue to make it about you and me. If I wasn't interested why would I be entertain this conversation? If I weren't interested, why have I studied this for over 10 years for countless hours and have even implemented the teachings into my lifestyle.  I only mentioned the fact that my dad was NBA player to illustrate that your career makes no difference in whether or not you follow the teachings or not. Also to show that a basketball was attempted to be put in my hands and instead it was a piano. This was to defend my reasoning for doing music. I was being candid. I'm humble like that and I do not mind telling the truth about myself. This often goes unappreciated especially when you are dealing with people whose hearts are diseased.

Knowledge of self and reparing an automobile was a poor analogy because the two are not the same. I understood what you meant, in that you have to put your knowledge into application, Which I do. This knowledge I have is the reason for my successes in life. It taught me knowledge of self and knowledge of the enemy. It taught me how to be a man that can stand on his own two. This benefits me when I make business decisions or when I have to communicate with people. Communication is the most important aspect of business. This is relevant because you can't do for self without understanding the science of business, which is why the NOI started many business when the Messenger was present. You should use better analogies though, because being an auto mechanic requires that i repair an object other than myself. The teachings of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad only requires that I improve myself in gaining knowledge of self. This has to do with self repair. This helps me to serve as an example for other's to follow. Auto mechanics do not repair themselves, so it was a weak comparison and shows that you lack understanding. I have given back what I could to the Nation. I have brought people into the knowledge of self as well as into the NOI. If you want to know my contribution since you insist on talking about me. You make asinine statements and analogies that do not properly illustrate the point, regardless to how common it may be. You are showing that you lack knowledge and that you should study. You even said to me once, "How can you level a playing field without a bat?" Bats don't level playing fields. They don't level anything. They are designed to hit baseballs. You need a lawnmower to level a playing field. Therefore I try to use the right tools for the functions I'm performing in. If I want to level something I need the tools necessary to trim the edges and even it out, thus making it on level. You don't get me though! That was a parable to illustrate how I use the truth for given circumstances and situations. Notice how I attack the things that you say in quotes and not you the person and the character you have. Your character is irrelevant. You cannot find a quote of mine that once said I was on level with the Messenger or almost on level. I have given credit where credit was do on every account. Why do you think I went over and talked about my family? I do not try and glorify myself. You make it hard for me to talk to you, because you dissapoint me in your statements. I am really waiting for you to say something intelligent and salient to our conversation. Your comments are not salient and you constantly miss the point. I have faith in you though =). This helps me to understand why you make the points that you make and now denounce the teachings of the Most honorable Elijah Muhammad. So far you have shown me that you are unable to see the greater purpose in things. Its like the story of Moses and the Wiseman. The Wiseman did things that Moses did not quite understand and he was questioning the Wiseman along the way. Even when the wiseman did things that appeared to be wrong or unjust Moses did not understand. Why did the wiseman sink the man's boat after he had helped them? Moses did not understand the reasoning at first, but the wiseman had a greater purpose and Moses then later understood why he sunk the man's boat.





Taalik to Khalifa




 A.  Are you or are you not a registered follower of the MESSENGER ? You said you are not,being a visitor cause you have registered family members do not make you a registered follower.
B.  Since you are an absentee believer & will not soldier,you fail to mention that you instead donate more monies to make up for your lack of being able to soldier,well?
C.  Believers that don't attend church or the mosque are looked upon as questionable by those who attend such & soldier for the cause,you call me combative & questions your character if you were an active registered FOI they'll tell you exactly what I'm saying as they done it to me,cause I also was an entertainer & Over the Road Driver,being a traveler,they question your actual belief.
D. So you feel just because you're a musician you are not required to sell bean pies,sell papers,get chased out of yards by owner's of dogs that hate muslims,spit on,cussed out,etc.,what if everybody got jobs that made them travel & so forth,then who would promote the teachings you claim you love,what if all the followers quit,would you pick up the torch,NO! Your music is more important than your alleged belief,I put my life on the line many times & denied my personal dreams so don't come to me with this sad excuse making story about having to have a job,I done both & none that knew me will ever tell you I was fake & they won't tell you that now,I sacrificed my last dime for my faith but you think a keyboard is more important,I done for your alleged belief more than you never had, I helped build temples,I was willing to take a bullet for both FARRAKHAN & AKBAR & my sisters. You have the nerve to insult me and have done nothing,I DON'T understand I just don't get it,I would have got a bullet,if not for brothers like me you couldn't be running your mouth,I was 18 years old straight out of high school,making papers right out of FARRAKHAN'S house,picking AKBAR up from his home,watching him unable to control his own disrespectful children,you insult me I done the work,I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TALK cause I earned it,YOU are a do nothing excuse maker,never soldiered. I had followers of WARITH DEAN wanting to beat us up side the head over a corner selling papers,but you are SPECIAL cause I MAKE music,what bull,lipservice a talker,nothing close to a soldier,the MESSENGER wanted soldiers not musicians,you offer no evidence that your music converts folks to the teachings,how special you are.
E.  Your TRUTH is your opinion,as truth is factual,you only offer opinions,beliefs & hearsay info,you don't have to be encouraged to believe when you have facts,something you don't,writing all this stuff but offering no sources except continued sciencing & the purpose of the messenger's teachings just like even in christianity is not only to repair self but encourage repair to the masses,bringing life to those who are mentally lost & dead,deaf,blind but you can't do such cause a piano is stuck where the sun don't shine,you really don't care about the upliftment of the people,FARD'S primary concern not music.
F.   When it's all said & done what is being offered is no more than fairytales & the only greater purpose a fairytale can offer is make a child believe in fantasy & put him or her to sleep,this is not to say just like ASEOP'S fables lessons can't be learned, you are the best example of this,it is fantasy that your music is awakening the masses even thou it may not be as nasty as the norm,your music doesn't make them come to the mosque or even to church,again you are upset cause I tell you point blank,you are far from being a believer in the MESSENGER,you like many thousands just have fallen in love with the hype,the entertainment value,you would never go to prison for the cause & don't say you would when you can't find an occupation that would allow you to soldier in the field with your fellow brethern,take my words to the MOSQUE & they'll tell you no different,a musician that is patriotic is held in less regard that the soldier in IRAQ as music can only inspire & comfort,the soldier is risking his life to maintain the freedoms & security of his nation,so in reality this is why you can't understand me as I am & have been a soldier,perhaps suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder but a soldier,this you have never been,my actions shown my belief & yours?...........
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